Wall Street will. When Congress voted not to pass TARP in 2008, the Dow lost over 700 points in one day. Congress passed TARP less than a week later. The stock market hasn't had a strong negative reaction to the brinkmanship in Washington; if the market tanks, then the politicians will get some legislation passed. My guess is by that time the US credit rating will already be downgraded, whether the debt ceiling is raised or not, which would result in the taxpayers paying more interest on the bonds than most of the tax revenue hikes in any of the proposed plans. Washington cares less about Main Street than about Wall Street.

Karen, yours is a very reasonable assessment.

Couldn't agree more. Once the masters of the universe speak. Their puppets will act.

Karen you are right. Unfortunately, that "Lets see what Happens" mentality seems to bring disaster to Main Street Americans who simply cannot afford another financial melt down again. The first one was devastating enough.

Joe, I took a look at your attached PDF, and WOW. Talk about picking and twisting questions to fit your agenda.

Your first statistic in your post the question has almost nothing to do with the cut, cap, and balance bill. It specifically asks about the balance part. Yeah people agree with that. But the "Cut & Cap" part ... oh well that wasn't even part of the question. It had nothing to do with the bill itself. Now let's look at some other questions and responses based on your own poll.

Question 21:

21. In some proposals, Congress would raise the debt ceiling while cutting between two trillion and four trillion dollars in government spending over the next ten years and raising taxes on some businesses and higher-income Americans. Would you favor or oppose this proposal?

July 18-20 2011

Favor 66% Oppose 34% No opinion 1%

Question 22

22. In another proposal, Congress would give President Obama the ability to raise the debt ceiling several times in the next 18 months while cutting a smaller amount in government spending and not raising taxes at all. Would you favor or oppose this proposal?

July 18-20 2011

Favor 34% Oppose 65% No opinion 1%

Those 2 questions right there directly dispute your "66% of american's favor the cut, cap, & balance" bill. American's want a fair bill. A bill that includes spending cuts along with revenue (aka tax) increases. The republicans and tea party members REFUSE to budge on that latter issue. That and only that is the reason this fiaso still drags on. Need more proof of that?

Question 24:

24. Now I'm going to read you some of the specific proposals for cutting government spending and increasing taxes that have been suggested as part of the discussions on the debt ceiling. For each one, please tell me whether you favor or oppose that proposal as a way to reduce the amount the government owes. (RANDOM ORDER)

(first number: Favor; second number: Oppose; third number: No Opinion

Cutting federal subsidies to farmers: 31%; 66%; 2%

Cutting pensions and benefits for retired government workers: 30%;68%;2%

Cutting defense spending: 47%; 52%; 1%

Cutting the amount the government spends on Medicaid, the federal health program for the poor: 22%; 77%; NA

Cutting the amount the government spends on Medicare, the federal health program for the elderly: 12%; 87%; 1%

Cutting the amount the government spends on Social Security:16%;84%;1%

Increasing the taxes paid by oil and gas companies by ending federal subsidies for those businesses: 73%;26%;1%

Increasing the taxes paid by businesses that own private jets: 76%;23%;NA

Increasing the taxes paid by people who make more than 250 thousand dollars a year: 73%; 26%; *

---
Your entire post just got blown up by the poll you referenced. Republicans refusal to bring any revenue increases to the table is a disgrace. Obama is actually going against his party and has brought to the table over 3 Trillion dollars in cuts.

P.S>> I happen to be blessed enough to be in the minority of people that will have their taxes increased (I'm a business owner, and I make more 250k a year). And for me to give an extra 3% of my income to help my fellow American's is worth that "sacrifice".

i posted the pdf, i referenced question 23, + 25. facts. yes i do believe the other poll questions are just as accurate. now listen to the steve wynn speech i posted business owner. post #1.6 fo ahead and pick that apart.

Steve Wynn speaks for himself. He hardly speaks for all business owners.

I'll give joe credit for TRYING to use facts. Even though he pretty much lied his a$$ off. Most conservatives don't even try to use facts. I don't think they even know their PC will look up information rather than just post BS on blogs. That being, said only 20% of the population thinks the debt should be paid off with just spending cuts.

Pacific NW Mark--steve wynn the democrat says he is speaking for all of his customers, he has lots and lots of customers, thats his business. if you would listen to his conference call with his board, you would know that he said that is what they are all telling him, that is why they will not do business are getting out of business, and will not invest in business ( job creation). I suggest you listen to the subject matter before you make comments, it supports my belief that I now have. the libs are libs because they just dont know any better. lack of education in the real world, just like that statement you made.

Joe and his ilk just hope nobody will check their references.

Since they never bother to check FOX's.

D-Nice- that stat may be very true, and it is a fact that 74% of the population wants a balanced budget amendment. obama says he will never let that pass. the reason being is that with a BBA obama can no longer grow the size and scope of government. and obviously americans want the size and scope of the government to stop growing. therefor obama is not governing according to the will of 3/4 of americans, or more. in this country the government and the president works for the people, the people do not work for the government or its leaders, growing the government costs the people more of their labor to pay for that larger government, hence obama is ruling like a dictator, and dictatorial governments have populations that work for that government. it is a simple concept once understood, but often misunderstood.

fox bla bla bla, bush bla bla bla, fair share bla bla bla, loop holes bla bla bla, tax the rich bla bla bal, spread the wealth bla bla bla..... do you guys even know where these talking points come from, and why is that your go to argument, cant you discuss the issues?

obviously americans want the size and scope of the government to stop growing

I think you're deluded. Americans want jobs. "Reducing the size and scope of the government" means laying off many of those Americans who are still working.

Want to see 15% unemployment before you can say "Ayn Rand"? Just go with the Tea Party and see where you end up.

Joe - A blanced budget at the federal level is a stupid idea. It's great at a state level though. What happens if we have a rash of natural disasters? The federal governemnt needs the ability to run a debt just in case we need to bail out the states. Spending needs to be cut, there is no debate about that, however, why can't we bring in more revenue to get the debt paid off faster. If we do it by only cutting spending we will pay billions more in interest, due to the simple fact that we could have paid it off faster. MY God even Grover Norquist has agreed with the president on this one and 80%of the country agrees with the president as well.

sure, 80% yep you and obama get your #s in the same place. i dont give a rats ass what grover and oscar says.

RealAmericansFirst--- you dont read or comprehend what you read very well, I said stop not shrink, i want it to shrink, i do not know what the stats are for americans and shrinking government. you may want to read threw ann ryand for some perspective on the motivation of others. try to comprehend it better, that may be why you put it down, lack of comprehension.

d-nice, weather you and obama think its a bad idea, its what 74% of americans want, so tuff. most of us did not want that god awful obamacare bill either but he rammed it threw like a dictator any way.

he government works for us, and if you dont do what we tell you, your ass is fired.

Frankly, I don't usually take comprehension lessons from a guy who can't even spell Pravda.

Do you have any estimates on what the unemployment rate will be if your teabagger friends get their way?? You need to know where you're going before you start cutting people off at the knees.

State government budgets are already in dire straits, and yet you want to take away their number one source of revenue (federal dollars)? Have you asked your governor how he feels about that lately?

USA Today

Federal aid is top revenue for states

Uncle Sam has supplanted sales, property and income taxes as the biggest source of revenue for state and local governments.

The shift shows how deeply the recession is cutting. Federal stimulus money aimed at reviving the economy and a sharp drop in tax collections have altered, at least temporarily, the traditional balance of how states, cities, counties and schools pay for their operations.

Better go ask those American corporations who are sitting on $1.9 TRILLION in cash to pony up. Corporate taxes are down to 12% of federal revenues - their lowest level in American history.

real american, soviet names are difficult for me, being a real american your communist lingo must be spot on. tell me about how marx almost got it right.

I notice, joe, that as usual you avoid all the facts and issues. Any idiot can call names (even if he can't spell them). It takes a brain to debate the facts.

RealAmericansFirst--what makes you a "real american". my spelling issues and lack of a brain make it tuff to figure, so why dont you lay it out for me, guy.

2.16

2.18

2.20

Anger Management....think about it.

Democrats still oppose short-term US debt plan...

reported by Channel News Asia on 25 Jul 2011 see http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world_business/view/1142834/1/.html

The WORLD understands what is going on in the USA. I wonder why the US Citizens do not understand...

Joe, it's a bit odd that everybody here is against the balanced budget amendment, but still you say 74% are in favor of it. i believe that to be another example of twisted facts.

I am not a DEM, and I dont go for it.

G

Tax the rich now... (Love your "name"...it is as clueless as your post),

Apparently, you believe that we have an unending supply of countries lined up to lend to the US. Do you KNOW who we owe our soul to? Perhaps you don't care...as long as the check arrives the 3rd of the month.

Unbelievable stupidity in people who think our country must have money - if we've got checks to write. News flash for you...we're broke. And no, you don't rob your neighbor (the guy who has a job and has EARNED his pay) so you get your entitlement. Now we've got to do what everyone who has ever found themselves in this position...make some hard choices, cut back on things you want/and would like to do, and spend less.

What I absolutely love about this administration (cue: sarcasm) is that every day I hear that social security benefits for the elderly will be cut. For those who've paid into it (even though I know the pot has been robbed), they get their money. The rest of the freeloaders, planned parenthood, all the countries around the world lined up with their hands out, etc....good luck. Isn't it amazing that we don't hear that THEIR benefits won't be paid?

We all know what loopholes are, right? Loopholes are unethical methods of moving money around to AVOID COMPLYING WITH LAW WHILE EVADING PROSECUTION. It's not raising taxes! The rate was set long ago. It was not raised. The rate has been what it's ALWAYS been. They just found a dirty, underhanded way not to pay that rate like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xm3RTgItj4Y

So unless you're willing to, at the very least, close such loopholes as a form of raising revenue and demonstrate that corporations don't pull the strings of our government, then we know what you think, too, fascist.

fascist?????? GE obamas "business partners in government" (definition of fascism)

paid no taxes last year, got sweet hart government strings pulled for them left and right, own msnbc, and shocker, their profits are up 21%, same year they paid ZERO taxes.

throwing stones in a glass house is not a good idea.

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/07/22/3787598/ge-2q-profit-up-21-percent-financial.html

@prof

Yes we are broke, and all people want is for everyone to pay their fair share. The wealth of the middle class has not grown in real terms since the oil embargo of the 70's, yet the the wealth of the upper two percent of this country has more than doubled. In the 50's (one of the most prosperous eras in history) the top tax rate for the wealthiest individuals was 90% and that was during the administration of republican president Eisenhower. And far be it from me to question your superior knowledge of the social security administration (cue: sarcasm), but it is possible for ss payments to stop if a default occurs because all the money for ss is just sitting in a trust somewhere- most of it is paid to recipients from those who are currently working which the treasury can choose to use for its intended purpose or pay bills it deems more pertinant

prof...excellent assessment....and yet you will hear the liberals say that it is all nonsense and the fault of those who want responsible government. the left(the spenders) who dont want to acknowledge that we are spending our country into poverty are chomping at the bit to make it even worse....and that is their solution.....You are seeing only solutions from them that will guarantee chaos....but they are hoping that they can fool the people long enough that their time and blame is gone. If the libs get their way, we will wake up in two or three yrs and the problem will be worse by two or three times......who would want to be the next president...or the next after that?...He will get all the blame and the negative reaction from those who are causing our problem....This country that we have known and appreciated will die an ugly death at the hands of the left....It is partially gone already...

prof, I can't help but admire the way you state categorically that "this country is broke" and then, in explaining why, you drag in Planned Parenthood without a word about two -- or is it three? -- unfunded wars in the Middle East, the deregulation that has been going on since the 1980s, and the projected surplus that was given away in 2001 to "those who earned it."

Yes, by all means, let's get rid of that noisome and expensive Planned Parenthood, and we'll throw in the budget draining NPR and the EPA and the IRS and the Departments of Energy and Education too.

That will solve the problem alright.

Dems biggest concern... How can we get any votes without "free" taxpayer money to buy them?

Some Democrats fuming at Obama

The aide said "the caucus exploded" after news broke of a possible deal between Obama and Boehner just before Lew's briefing. Democrats' immediate reaction to the news was that it "would be terrible for their constituents" because it went after all of their "sacred cows."

So Dems are allowed to have "sacred cows"? didn't Obama say there were no "sacred cows"?

"But it's his willingness to take on entitlement programs that conjures up memories among some Democrats of the tax deal he negotiated with Republicans with the clock winding down at the end of 2010 that reportedly had House Democrats chanting "Just say no!" in a closed-door meeting before eventually voting for the package."

Democrats chanting"NO!" to financial responsibility? Is anybody surprised by THE PARTY OF SPEND!'s hypocrisy?

"Congressional Black Caucus Chairman Emanuel Cleaver said African-Americans, seniors and children rely heavily on entitlement programs. Deep cuts to these critical programs would put the well-being of our families and loved ones at risk," he said."

So one entire race along with children and elderly rely on "entitlements" and the Black Caucus is working to keep it that way? Just shows how the color of green is all that matters to the greedy.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/07/22/democrats.anger.obama/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Right, joe, I agree with you. That's why I said you should, at the very least, support closing loopholes as a means of raising revenue. Do you support closing loopholes? I do. The Republicans in Congress, however, won't even give up that much as part of a debt reduction deal. As such, I consider folks like them fascists.

WarhammerThree-- and folks like obama, right, don't be one sided. i want the non profits like the ford foundation, rockafeller, gates, annenburg foundation, media maters, you know the oligarchy foundations that fund left wing loon groups and npr taxed just like all the rest, that would only be fair, right.

Take all the brain dead lemming Repugnacants, ship them to Texas and let them secede from this country they're trying so hard to destroy. Some of my relatives included. Rick Perry make room.

joe - GE hasn't paid taxes for 10 years. Thanks to the tax code passed by Bush/Cheney in 2001.

The most egregious example is General Electric. Last year the conglomerate generated $10.3 billion in pretax income, but ended up owing nothing to Uncle Sam. In fact, it recorded a tax benefit of $1.1 billion.

Forbes - What the Top U.S. Companies Pay in Taxes

How did this happen? It's complicated. GE's tax return is the largest the IRS deals with each year--some 24,000 pages if printed out. Its annual report filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission weighs in at more than 700 pages.

Inside you'll find that GE in effect consists of two divisions: General Electric Capital and everything else. The everything else--maker of engines, power plants, TV shows and the like--would have paid a 22% tax rate if it was a standalone company.

It's GE Capital that keeps the overall tax bill so low. Over the last two years, GE Capital has displayed an uncanny ability to lose lots of money in the U.S. (posting a $6.5 billion loss in 2009), and make lots of money overseas (a $4.3 billion gain). Not only do the U.S. losses balance out the overseas gains, but GE can defer taxes on that overseas income indefinitely. The timing of big deductions for depreciation in GE Capital's equipment leasing business also provides a tax benefit, as will loan losses left over from the credit crunch.

pjam09 - You keep posting that same thing but really all it does is show how the republicans are refusing to compromise. Obama has given up so much to try to make a deal the democrats are mad at him. Don't you understand. You keep posting it like it bad for Obama, actually it's the opposite

i want the non profits like the ford foundation, rockafeller, gates, annenburg foundation, media maters, you know the oligarchy foundations that fund left wing loon groups and npr taxed just like all the rest, that would only be fair, right.

Oh, good grief. Do you know what part of corporations get taxed? PROFITS. So tell me, genius, how does one tax the profits of an organization that doesn't make profits, hence the term NON-profit?

See, there are no loopholes to close for the non-profits you listed because they don't use any loopholes. They have no profits to tax. The money they bring in goes back into operating costs.

Why folks continue to bash charitable organizations that help the poor and underprivileged while defending multibillion dollar, multinational (i.e. NO LOYALTY TO YOU OR THE U.S. of A.) corporations that pull sh!t like this --

• U.S. corporations are expanding overseas, not so much at home. McDonalds and Caterpillar said overseas sales growth outperformed the U.S. in the April-June quarter. U.S.-based multinational companies have been focused overseas for years: In the 2000s, they added 2.4 million jobs in foreign countries and cut 2.9 million jobs in the United States, according to the Commerce Department.
• Back in the U.S., companies are squeezing more productivity out of staffs thinned out by layoffs during Great Recession. They don't need to hire. And they don't need to be generous with pay raises; they know their employees have nowhere else to go.
• Companies remain reluctant to spend the $1.9 trillion in cash they've accumulated, especially in the United States. They're unconvinced that consumers are ready to spend again with the vigor they showed before the recession, and they are worried about uncertainty in U.S. government policies.

-- baffles me. Corporate tactics like this are tantamount to treason in my eyes and anyone who supports or defends such tactics should be viewed as traitors to this country. Here's the link to the full article: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43860044/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/

no, they are huge tax shelters for the oligarchy, the old money who set up the progressive income tax to keep new money from saving any real money. so they put their old money in non profits like the ford foundation and the rockafeller foundation and pay no taxes, yet still control their wealth. its all a rigged communist elitist tax structure, thats why we need to get rid of that shelter, and the progressive income tax, and replace it with a fair or flat tax, either way. the whole time they fund leftist causes that promote their "progressive" government. its for the little guy. the old money is well known for their progressive view, eugenics, you know that nazi thing that hitler learned from old money elitist progressive americans, you know that right? your progressive ideology led to the mass extermination of 6 million jews, countless forced sterilizations of american blacks, native americans, hispanics, up until about 1987. the leftist academics leave that out, did not learn that, huh, bub. you know thats why progressivism was pushed underground after WW2, but soon enough we forget and you progressives are back in left wing style. hay its for the little guy.

Just let them keep talking(writing). You don't even have to challenge them. Eventually the imbalance begins to ooze out the edges and cracks!

Oy. All I can do is shake my head and roll my eyes. Oh, hey, ya might wanna check but I think you may have dropped your tin foil hat. Good grief...

yes, any one who points out the progressive income tax was lauded by lennon as the one way to bring down capitalism, that the banking elite of the world are compromised of socialists and communists, like DSK, is a tin foil hat guy. yea socialism is for the little guy, sure.

Well, say what you will about Lennon's tax policy, but I think the music he made with Paul, George and Ringo was outstanding.

As we continue the process of the bankruptcy of our country...the liberals are saying "lets acknowledge all the good things about all this process and continue them because there is no other solution that we will accept"...

Federal Debt will bankrupt ALL citizens in this country!

The Dems want to sink the US fiscal ship by adding more debt and adding to needless social programs, when 1/2 of America PAYS NO FEDERAL INCOME TAX!

Where is the equity in being rewarded for not contirbuting?

Dems and Liberals seem unable to do math!

Riiiiight. And Republicans and neoconservatives had absolutely nothing to do with this mountain of debt, right? If Bush would've repealed his tax cuts to help pay for little forays into Afghanistan (which I supported) and Iraq (which I vehemently opposed), like any responsible President should have during times of war (anybody remember the amount of sacrifice the American people made during WWII to support our troops?), then maybe we wouldn't be in such a deep hole as we are now. But, y'know, what do you expect when his vice president bellowed, Deficits don't matter." Then again, if he didn't lead us into Iraq in the first place...

Well, water under the bridge now. The take home point is, BOTH parties are responsible for this mess. BOTH!! One one. Not the other. BOTH. So please, go peddle your partisan gum-flapping else where.

WarhammerThree

Bush is no longer in office, and the things Obama has implemented are taking America in the WRONG fiscal direction!

Two wrongs (Bush and Obama) do not make a right!

Bush is no longer in office

That's besides the point. In your previous post before last, you said, Dems this and Liberals that. You put all the blame on one side. I simply called you on it. Then, you threw me a token "Bush was wrong" after the fact. This was DECADES of reckless fiscal policy that lead us to where we are today. And it's completely relevant to make sure blame is squarely placed on ALL parties involved, whether they are in office or not. And just to play Devil's Advocate here, do you seriously think for one minute that John McCain would've been doing any better than Obama right now? If so, then, in my opinion, you are seriously, seriously diluted.

Egads, I wish Ron Paul won the primary nod in 2008. At the very least, he would've gotten us out of the Middle East.

Warhammer...props for a proper "egads" in there. And you're right...both parties are to blame for decades of bad decisions.

Oh but Mud, the Rich are misunderstood. And really..., the average American Shmoe is use to doing without aren't they? The rich on the other hand aren't, and will suffer more if they don't get EVERYTHING they want.

If I were a rich man and I was watching as this government makes the fatal mistake of more and more debt, I would be planning my future....and that would be to preserve my success by operating in a way that the government could not take it away....Many of the rich will be doing just that...and It will cost our country....I dont blame them. When a government turns its people against the successful, that country will collapse into the third world....

I know that the reactionaries of the left(those making the propaganda for the case of class envy and hate) will start calling me names over this statement....but, the situation is real and honest.....

Bohner bailed out today because he could not miss Happy Hour being the drunken A-Hole he continues to show time after time.

The current situation is insanity which is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.............

Bill, so true. Tan in a can is probably crying in his martini glass as we type over the fact that Obama is going to beat him like a red headed step child tomorrow.

Bill, when you cant think of something intelligent, you revert to insults and name calling.... Try a little harder, and try to put a little reason in there every once in a while....

And, as I understand it, it is the responsibility of the House to propose the legislation, pass it and send it to the Senate, and ultimately to the President. But, of course, let's blame Obama once more, even though it is the Republican controlled house's jog to propose the legislation, gain agreement from the Dems and pass it along.

J100 - THe House did pass Cut, Cap and Balance and then the Senate killed it, and Obama said he would veto it anyway.... try leaving your moms basement sometime.

If I'm not mistaken, we are still waiting for the Republican budget. You know, the one that they are trying to hammer out, but the GOP walked out on the meeting today.

Oh, and by the way, I'm a hard working business owner that pays plenty of taxes and creates jobs in my small business, open for 26 years now. It's hate like you spew that is destroying this country.

Cut, cap and balance is a compete peice of s hit. It's basically like the democrats putting all their wants for debt reduction in a bill and ramming it through the house just because they have the votes. That's all the republicans did, just so they could say, oh look we passed this and Obama shot it down. Then lemmings like yourself can spout the same BS. Obama offered the republicans more than he should have and they still didn't take the deal because they are protecting the top 2%. You conservative and your twisted reality just makes me sick.

D-Nice - what I can't fathom is how people making way less than $250k a year have been brainwashed into shilling for more money for those who are stealing it from them every day.

Corporate tax revenues are down to 12% of all federal revenue, their lowest percentage in American history.

The top tax personal income tax rate is at its lowest level since the 1931.

But payroll taxes are now up to 36% of federal revenue.

What are the federal government's sources of revenue?

Sources of federal revenue, Fiscal 1950-2008

Corporations are recording record profits and are sitting on over $1.9 TRILLION in cash. But NONE of it's going to workers:

Change in corporate profits and number of jobs in the U.S. since the start of the recession

Who is getting welfare in America?

Republicans agree to everything!. Well....... EXCEPT for the RICH paying their FAIR SHARE of TAXES. RYAN'S PLAN reduces their FAIR share from 35% to 25%. CUT, CAP and BALANCE reduces it from 35% to 23%-29%. Yes SIR. Fair and Balanced just like Fixed News.

We already have term limits...... It's called an election. However, think about who would take their place. More of the same? No one is successful in gaining a political position anymore unless they are scum. It's all money and BS with no interest in what is best for our country, only their tax supported career. Just look at the jerks we have seeking the GOP bid now. There's not one statesman among them. So, if you don't like the President now, think about who could become the President out of that bunch...... Scary, real scary!

Yeah term limits are neccessary, money/incumbents rule elections, and at least freshman congressman stick by their guns (sometimes literally). And though I think many of the freshman republicans are insane for not trying to compromise on this issue, they are basically doing what they said they'd do; if their constituents don't like it, they shouldn't have voted for them. Having a person in office for too long corrupts them, we need more freshman who won't play politics.

Of course, this would likely create a stalemate in the government...you really have to choose what you'd rather want: a corrupt, compromising government that makes "fake progress", or a stalemated government that does nothing. Or hey, maybe we could change the whole system all together!...too bad no one would vote for that...

These freshmen legislators signed the "pledge" thereby giving up their right to think for themselves....blindly follow Grover as he leads the country over a cliff....I can hear the chanting now...Grover says no, Grover says no, Grover says no, Grover says no......

I agree with term limits. How about all politicians, regardless of position, have one (1) six (6) year term? Alternate every TWO (2) years having an election and that way everyone gets what they want - except politicians who get SIX (6) years to hold ANY office. Though each level is exempt: local/city, county, state and then federal.

A career politician would (only) have a TOTAL of 24 years to be an elected official, of any type. Which is a H3LL of a long time for any type job.

If elected mayor of Smithsville, AnyState, then that serves as the ONLY local office a person could hold in Smithsville. Next would be county, state, and last federal. No matter what the position is, no 2nd term in an area.

Pipe dream? Yes. Obviously. But it sure would be nice. The elections would be devastating - absolute h3ll. But no politician would take chances - at least until elected.

BTW, I'm for election reform as well. Don't get me started on that.

A career politician would (only) have a TOTAL of 24 years. That is 20 years too long. We need a citizen politician. NOT a LIFER. Democrats and Independants sat out the last election, assuming that their neighbor voted, but he didn't vote either. NOW they are stuck with the TEA PARTY and OLD REPUBLICANS,who have been living off the TAX PAYERS MONEY for years. Time for them to get a REAL $9.00 an hour job and see how the other 98% of Americans live.

The president has agreed to countless spending cuts. The teabaggers have agreed to absolutely nothing. Who's really acting like a child here?

WHAT spending are you talking about? Cmon wise the hell up. Here are the facts.

11 years spent fighting a war that was totally unncessary and contrived by that genius w.

A huge wet kiss to the millionaires and billionaires by that genius W.

0 zip nada regulations that helped those thieves on wall street make a ton of money then get bailed out. who oh that genius w.

tax breaks for corporations to out source jobs.

tax breaks that make US corporations the 2nd lowest tax payers of all the industrilized nations.

OH you probably are refering to Social Security that we the middle and lower class fund. Had it not been drained by every president since your saint ronny. It would be totally solvent and have a surplus. no...?

Oh Medicare/medicaid. So now it's the tea party that wants to kill granny!

Wake up. These r's are killing everything in sight that dosen't have a big DOLLAR sign

Check the record for who did the spending!

Dems biggest concern... How can we get any votes without "free" taxpayer money to buy them?

Some Democrats fuming at Obama

The aide said "the caucus exploded" after news broke of a possible deal between Obama and Boehner just before Lew's briefing. Democrats' immediate reaction to the news was that it "would be terrible for their constituents" because it went after all of their "sacred cows."

So Dems are allowed to have "sacred cows"? didn't Obama say there were no "sacred cows"?

"But it's his willingness to take on entitlement programs that conjures up memories among some Democrats of the tax deal he negotiated with Republicans with the clock winding down at the end of 2010 that reportedly had House Democrats chanting "Just say no!" in a closed-door meeting before eventually voting for the package."

Democrats chanting"NO!" to financial responsibility? Is anybody surprised by THE PARTY OF SPEND!'s hypocrisy?

"Congressional Black Caucus Chairman Emanuel Cleaver said African-Americans, seniors and children rely heavily on entitlement programs. Deep cuts to these critical programs would put the well-being of our families and loved ones at risk," he said."

So one entire race along with children and elderly rely on "entitlements" and the Black Caucus is working to keep it that way? Just shows how the color of green is all that matters to the greedy.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/07/22/democrats.anger.obama/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

And who went stomping out today? I believe that is the childish behavior of Mr. Boehner.....

pjam09 - You keep posting that same thing but really all it does is show how the republicans are refusing to compromise. Obama has given up so much to try to make a deal the democrats are mad at him. Don't you understand. You keep posting it like it bad for Obama, actually it's the opposite

Ditto D-Nice. This post is getting pretty old.

D-nice Obama has taken a lot also. His refusal to give the cola raises to over 50 million Americans cost them over 150-200 billon dollars in 3 years. I am also sick and tired of S.S. being called an entitlement. That is money paid by Americans through payroll taxes For their retirement. The money was STOLEN by both parties. If not it would have reserves of hundreds of billions if not more. But congress couldn't leave it alone and passed an amendment to tap into the Americans piggy bank and went on a spending spree. Now they call it an entitlement to justify it's rape. If their checks don't go out tens of millions of AMERICANS will be HOMELESS as well as HUNGRY. But what does the President(the worst in history) as well as congress care. When they are elected they are upper or middle class people but when they leave office they are millionaires how do you explain that

worst president in history acts like a child. Sorry that title still belongs to George Walker Bush.

I dont like Obama at all so I am tainted, same as all of the W is the devil folks. Here is the issue, we have to stop spending money we dont have ($0.40 of every dollar is borrowed) or some time in the near future we are done and there will be no way to pay anything back. We are at $14T+ now, many economists have said we are approaching the point that it will be impossible to turn this around. W was not a fiscal conservative granted, however he did not spend money like O, not even close. In fact we have never had anyone spend money at this pace since the great depression.

What I keep hearing is that the rich need to step up and pay more taxes. The plain truth is that the rich more than pay their fare share (I am not one of the rich by the way). Here is the facts on who pays the taxes in this country. The top 1% already pay ~33% of the taxes, the top 5% pay ~65% and the top 10% already pay ~90%. The rich are already paying their fare share. We need to quit painting targets on these folks. It is easy to attack these people because they are successful but they are a main engine for creating jobs. Raising taxes does not create a single sustainable job, it actually does the opposite, it creates a drain. Creating class envy is terrible, the people that are already paying for nearly everything are always the ones that get attacked.

For those that harp that the debt ceiling needs to be raised again please let me know these two simple questions that really have nothing to do with which party is in office: is there any logic in giving a person increased spending on a credit card if they have no way to pay anything back and do you realize that somehow all of this debt needs to be repaid or interest payments will keep being assessed to the point in which you can not apy it back. Government (on both sides) will gladly countinue to spend our childrens future and not stop spending if you folks keep allowing them too. Any answers other than W is the devil?

I've prepared a little example that I hope will inform you on why exactly I believe raising taxes on the rich is a bad idea. The numbers are hypothetical, but the ideas aren't.

Imagine Bob is a rich guy. Right now, Bob has a variety of investment options, such as a commercial bond at 11% (after taxes, providing a return of 9%), and a muncipal (government) bond at 8% (but tax-free). Right now, because he wants to make more money, he'd obviously choose the commercial bond, as it offers a higher rate of return (9% versus 8%). So, even though Bob is paying taxes, he's still making more money than he would have with the municipal bond, so he's happy.

Now, let's raise the taxes on Bob. Suddenly, that commercial bond at 11% now only provides a return of 7%, making that municipal bond at 8% a lot more attractive. He chooses that, and is now not paying any taxes on the interest he earns. Paradoxically, you've lowered tax revenues by raising taxes.

By doing so, you've also created the side-effect of reducing the amount of money available for commercial borrowers. One of the major ways corporations raise money is through bond issues. You've now reduced the amount of money available for investment in things such as capital assets.

You may argue that we should not allow a tax-free treatment of municipal bonds. However, these bonds are issued by governments for things such as roads and schools. They have a lower rate of return because of their tax-free status. If you remove the tax break for these types of bonds, governments will be forced to raise interest rates, which will increase the costs of servicing these loans. This will be more expensive to governments.

Toasty - You're right, Dems forced us into this position through their unsustainable spending... and they have no intention of doing the right thing (financial responsibility).

Dems biggest concern... How can we get any votes without "free" taxpayer money to buy them?

Some Democrats fuming at Obama

The aide said "the caucus exploded" after news broke of a possible deal between Obama and Boehner just before Lew's briefing. Democrats' immediate reaction to the news was that it "would be terrible for their constituents" because it went after all of their "sacred cows."

So Dems are allowed to have "sacred cows"? didn't Obama say there were no "sacred cows"?

"But it's his willingness to take on entitlement programs that conjures up memories among some Democrats of the tax deal he negotiated with Republicans with the clock winding down at the end of 2010 that reportedly had House Democrats chanting "Just say no!" in a closed-door meeting before eventually voting for the package."

Democrats chanting"NO!" to financial responsibility? Is anybody surprised by THE PARTY OF SPEND!'s hypocrisy?

"Congressional Black Caucus Chairman Emanuel Cleaver said African-Americans, seniors and children rely heavily on entitlement programs. Deep cuts to these critical programs would put the well-being of our families and loved ones at risk," he said."

So one entire race along with children and elderly rely on "entitlements" and the Black Caucus is working to keep it that way? Just shows how the color of green is all that matters to the greedy.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/07/22/democrats.anger.obama/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Pjam, we know you were brainwashed by listening to fox news repeating the same bull@!$%# over and over, but we have brains and original thoughts on the 'vine and thus do not need you to post the same stupid @!$%#ing content three times on the same message board. Please stop.

Just wondering when the people most harmed by the DO NOTHING PARTY (TEA/PUBLICANS) are going to show up in Washington, D. C.? Will it be on AUGUST 3rd when they don't receive a check?

i agree, eric cantor has stated that he won't sign anything that has obama's signiture on it. no matter what. i think he has been promised a high position if he helps the GOP defeat obama in2012. big money people made that promise to him. i also think they made the same promise to McConnel, and he was going to do it, but woke up and realized what would happen if the economy failed. cantor hasn't been around long enough to know that he is playing with fire. he is like a 6 year old who was promised a trip to burger king, and doesn't care what he has to to get there. he is very immature. i'm hoping that after 2012, i never hear his name again. hopefully the damage he causes, can be mended. in some ways, he is like gw bush. thinks all of his decisions are the right ones. they were both born into money families. and both are spoiled little brats. i hope the american people see through them in 2012. life as we know it in america depends on it.

I have been trying to fine the section that says they are required to uphold the law of Grover Norquist? Isn't he just a private citizen?

norquist is the messenger boy, between the big money people and the GOP. he is actually very smart, and very evil.he promised those members of the GOP that he could guarantee success in their political career if they vowed to never vote to raise taxes. he then dumped loads of money into their campaign, to insure victory. the money came from the lobbyists, who got the tax breaks. of course the tax breaks were big money compared to the money spent on campaigns. norquist also stated that if any of his electees ever voted for tax increases that he would use the same tactics that got them elected, to make sure they lost in their next elections. noprquist is a snake. smart people know that you can't have dealings with snakes, because eventually they will bite you. that's why eric cantor will not let the debt ceiling be raised. some of the GOP believe that letting the country's credit tank will assure a victory in the white house in 2012. if that happens they will try to hang the blame on democrats. the tea party people will be gone after norquist gets what he wants from them. to answer your question, norquist is not an elected official, and he doesn't have to worry about himself being reelected. sorry i got off the track, i just get really pi--ed off when i see the country being held hostage by a little fruit cake who really doesn't care about america, just cares about his own personal gain.

one must look at the sums of money in offshore accounts that await the tea party heathens when they are voted off the island in 4-6 years. money, not religion is the new opiate of the insane.

pjam you need to post something new and current and most importantly relevant. terms such as "sacred cows" sell well to morons. fox likes to give you a short sparse sound bite so you don't tax yourself with thought. as alan mcginess said so well in his tape from the 1970's: some people enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. pjam you are one of these folks. when you have an original well thought out opinion call me. until then shut the @!$%# up.

When a small band of zealots can call the shots-there is no hope or change possible.

I suspect the Banks and Land Lords are just frothing at the mouth to put people out of their homes IF the Republicans don't bend.

What the government is doing now is like using one credit card to pay off another.

I agree with Mark-1108891. British say "Spot on!", 70s hippies say "Right on!" and Target team members say "Bullseye!".

Congress passes all funding laws - if they do not, then it will not happen. Congress USED to then approve the expansion of the so-called debt ceiling, but that was deemed an enormous waste of time, so it became a super-sized box.

Now that box is too small. Mark points out that Congress (House of Representatives and Senate) BOTH agree on the legislation, AND President signs the bill into law. (If a veto, then Congress may override it and it then becomes law). IN ALL CASES, they approve what is considered ESSENTIAL spending - and it is up to the Executive Office (President and his/her Cabinet) to implement.

To implement means to fund it and that requires borrowing to pay the debt. WHY IS THERE A LIMIT? Mark is right, and all of us need to understand this basic functioning of our government - which needs to be reinforced on TV, in school, and instead of discussions about Jen rocking a leather dress!